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Author Topic: Hand made Full Tang katanas for cheap  (Read 1047 times)
AK
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« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2009, 05:22:16 AM »

While I am a machete man, I agree with Overkill in that I would also like a nice functional sword and not a wall hanger. Got enough of those. Sadly most of the authentics are out of price range for me.

The machete's at Wal Mart are the same kind you get from the camping outfitters. Cheap crap and they do break. Handles are not very good either. A real bad deal at a real low price! If you are just some once a year camper then sure, you might find it useful, but avoid arming yourself with anything at Wal Mart. Unless some people can prove me wrong. They have night vision stuff there, but again if you look around you can find better, and it is actually cheaper.

I was wondering about the Kitanas advertised in this thread tho. Are they any good? ie does anyone have one to verify they aren't ornamental and can withstand some abuse and hardcore use?

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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2009, 07:11:57 AM »

I was wondering about the Kitanas advertised in this thread tho. Are they any good? ie does anyone have one to verify they aren't ornamental and can withstand some abuse and hardcore use?

I can't say positively, as I don't own one, but if the website has accurate information, I believe they might be pretty decent.

I only looked at one of them on the site, but here are my thoughts:

1060 carbon steel is just about right for a katana. They seem to be hand forged, and hand finished, they're demountable (you can take them apart for proper maintenance) so I think that they seem like a pretty legit

Back when I was smithing, I wouldn't have made a tsuba for the price they're asking for the entire sword! ($80 for this one)

I might actually buy one myself, if I do, I'll post a review
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sventhewarrior
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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2009, 10:23:27 AM »

If you couldn't make a tsuba for the price they're asking, that should tell you something. A lot of the "hand made" swords are actually "hand made" by a factory worker with an industrial forge. It doesn't mean that you have genuine craftsmanship.

I can assure you that these swords don't have the same sort of construction as a true Japanese sword. The real deal has different carbon levels in various parts of the sword. There's a more flexible center, which keeps the blade from being too breakable, while the edge is more rigid, allowing it to keep a razor sharp edge.

Generally you can tell by looking at the hamon, which is the wave pattern that appears on a traditional blade. Now, most factories will add one so that it looks right, but it's fairly easy to tell a real one from the cosmetic ones if you know what you're looking for.

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« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2009, 07:21:32 PM »

If you couldn't make a tsuba for the price they're asking, that should tell you something. A lot of the "hand made" swords are actually "hand made" by a factory worker with an industrial forge. It doesn't mean that you have genuine craftsmanship.

I can assure you that these swords don't have the same sort of construction as a true Japanese sword. The real deal has different carbon levels in various parts of the sword. There's a more flexible center, which keeps the blade from being too breakable, while the edge is more rigid, allowing it to keep a razor sharp edge.

Generally you can tell by looking at the hamon, which is the wave pattern that appears on a traditional blade. Now, most factories will add one so that it looks right, but it's fairly easy to tell a real one from the cosmetic ones if you know what you're looking for.


Something being made in a factory doesn't mean that it isn't well made.

Granted, you normally get what you pay for, but there is no reason that a decent sword that lacks frills couldn't be had for this price if made in a production line.

True, a traditional blade isn't made from a mono steel, but a monosteel is probably better than the traditional method. Traditional methods end in a result that is roughly equivalent to 1045-1050 carbon steel. The exception is that a blade made from tamahagane has flaws and imperfections in the steel.

The Hamon has nothing to do with whether the steel is made with traditional methods, it has only to do with the heat treatment process and the chemical makeup of the steel. A true Hamon can be seen on almost any simple carbon steel when heat treated properly.

A hamon shows up on a blade due to differential heat treatment. traditionally the mixtures used by individual smiths where treated as trade secrets. Realistically though they generally consisted of rice ash, a small amount of silica, and a few traces of other things depending on the smith.

The blade is pre-set to a negative curve (normally, though not always) and the blade's spine is coated in the "clay" in a specific pattern. the blade is then heated in the forge. When the blade is at heat, it's removed from the forge and quenched in water. The "clay" prevents the spine of the blade from cooling as quickly, and the blade's curve is set, and the edge is much harder than the spine. This provides a hard edge, and a softer spine that will absorb impact, and allow the blade to flex.

It's not uncommon to find older blades that have broken along the Hamon line, as this was their weakest area.

Modern heat treatment is much more practical for creating a durable blade, but differential quench remains popular due to the tradition that it carries with it.

There are several different methods for the blade construction. Some of these had soft iron cores and harder steel "skins" some had hard steel cores and soft iron "skins" and some had the same steel throughout. The difference in construction varied over time, as well as by the school of thought (and lineage of teachers)

I am a classically trained sword maker, I studied in Japan, and I've made numerous swords that are in the hands of various collectors.

Trust me when I say that there's more myth than science to traditional Japanese swords.

I make my own tamahagane, and I can tell you that unless you're a collector, you want mono-steel. A tamahagane blade is a thing of beauty, but as far as combat goes, monosteel is better.

Same goes for damascus steel. it looks cool, and modern properly made damascus can be almost as good as a mono steel, but mostly just expect it to be prettier.

Hope that helps anyone make a decision, and if you guys would like, I can write up tutorials on sword and knife making. as well as proper heat treatment, and even improvised forging techniques.
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« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2009, 07:34:15 AM »

Quote
if you guys would like, I can write up tutorials on sword and knife making. as well as proper heat treatment, and even improvised forging techniques.

Please do. I have concepts but have never had the chance to actually talk to sword makers before, and as someone mentioned, the trade secrets oh the trade secrets. I ran into that wall many times trying to find out how to make a sword, a good one, from start to finish and all the materials. Lots of places wanted cash for all the details, and others would only make it and sell it, and would not reveal anything.

I was also thinking of buying one of the cheap ones and posting a review. Probably end up "lost in the mail" with my postal luck. They hate me.  Wink
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« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2009, 02:51:19 AM »

 Thanks to Olnick for the link to the redneck katana. It ain't pretty, but it at least looks functional, just wish they gave more info as to the grade of steel. Files are really hard and would seem to be brittle, if that's what "File tool steel" is.
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« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2009, 08:21:04 AM »

Ah. My weapon of choice isn't even the Katana. Or even the Machete. I prefer something a little further west. A german bastard sword, (aka the Hand and a Half sword) and the italian rapier. Both are combat ready. I would know. I forged them myself. I had help, but I was the one behind the hammer. Because I'm trained in both of them, I would take them over a machete. And even if I'm caught unaware on Z-Day, I'm never caught entirely unaware. One or the other is always strapped to my back. Sometimes I carry both. Because I'm a student of martial arts, it's legal.
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2010, 12:13:29 PM »

using a katana to kill zombies would not only be fun but its good to have a katana around! you can cut their heads off from a safe distence (keep rag handy to clean the bool off the blade!!!!! Grin
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« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2011, 03:58:23 PM »

Any swords not considered national art treasures were considered weapons and therefore banned. Most of those that survived were bought by American GIs and shipped to the US. After that they were largely neglected. Any one that's been well-maintained and taken care of is going to be a valued collector's item. It will therefore be expensive, but a lot less so than a traditional sword of the same quality.
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